Transcript
WEBVTT
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What's up everybody, Welcome back to The Neighborhood and thank you for spending part of your day with us today.
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If you're a returning listener, thank you and welcome back, and if this happens to be your first episode, thank you and welcome to the show.
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On this episode, we're talking about the Legend of Zelda, Breath of the Wild.
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Welcome to the podcast where two longtime friends, and sometimes a guest, talk about their favorite games from the perspective of an average player.
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My name is Andrew Kimball and I'm Dylan Ren and we are your friendly neighborhood gamers.
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The Legend of Zelda.
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Breath of the Wild is an action-adventure game developed by Nintendo EPD for the Nintendo Switch and the Wii U.
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Set at the end of the Zelda timeline, the player controls an amnesiac link as he sets out to save Princess Zelda and prevent Calamity Ganon from further destroying Hyrule.
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Players explore the open world of Hyrule while they collect items and complete objectives such as puzzles or side quests.
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Breath of the Wild's world is unstructured and encourages exploration and experimentation.
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The story can be completed in a nonlinear fashion.
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Critics praised its open-ended gameplay, open world design and attention to detail, though some criticized its technical performance.
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It is the best-selling Zelda game and one of the best-selling video games of all time, with 30.69 million copies sold by 2022.
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We'll see how tears of the kingdom stacks up.
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Breath of the Wild is considered one of the greatest video games of all time.
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Journalists described it as a landmark in open world design for its emphasis on experimentation, physics-based sandbox and emergent gameplay.
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Numerous developers cited Breath of the Wild as inspiration and it is a popular point of comparison among open world games.
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Do you agree with that, joe?
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Yeah, every single word of that.
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Uh, you, i'm back.
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Yeah, welcome back to the show and figure we'll get your voice on here as we get into this episode.
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as the people are aware, there are three people talking about the game this week.
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but yeah, you agree with that.
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Yeah, you agree with every word Pretty much.
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yeah, i'm excited to get into it then because we'll see how Dylan feels, if he agrees with every word or not.
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You know, we'll see.
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Gonna play the contrarian on this one.
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I'll say this is why I'm on this one Back up.
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Yeah, andrew couldn't take me by himself.
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This is a classic.
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Joe needs to tell Dylan he's wrong.
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I'm sure it will come out.
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Get back to the original bit.
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For this episode.
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as we move through this conversation, we're just going to speak openly and freely about this game.
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The story is Contrary to what we normally do Yeah, typically we Typically Andrew's holding me back.
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Typically, we break it up and we try to save spoilers for the back half of the game.
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The story of this game is pretty basic.
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There are a few little twists when compared to how Zelda games are traditionally structured and what happens in the story.
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The story of this one is a little bit darker in tone and more melancholy.
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But yeah, we're just going to talk about everything at once.
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We're not going to segment this conversation.
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So consider this your spoiler warning if you have not played the game and don't want to have the story stuff spoiled for you.
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So to start this thing off, let's just talk about our experiences with this game, because they're all a little bit different.
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Joe, let's start with you.
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Oh geez, I wasn't prepped for this.
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It's been a real long time since I played it, Yeah exactly.
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I want to say I played it pretty immediately after it came out, but that was like four or five years ago at this point.
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Wait, did it come out?
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It came out in 2017.
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Yeah.
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Okay, so it would have taken me maybe a year then to get to it.
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I was going to say I think you had played it relatively recently when we recorded our level playing field episode about it, which would have been Yeah in 2017, i was still in college and I didn't play it until after college.
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Yeah, but I also wasn't super heavily spoiled on it, so it was a relatively blind experience, which I think largely.
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It's easy to go that way into Breath of the Wild because it is such an open game that you might see little bits of gameplay here and there or even get some specific spoilers.
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That's really not going to tell you how the game is going to be for you, because it's very specific to how you approach things.
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Yeah, but I played it all the way through pretty normal completion, didn't go anything crazy completionist and try to skip anything.
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I did the DLC where you get the bike, which is a little unfortunate that that came later, because the bike is pretty cool.
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It's just, by the time you get it, you kind of don't need it.
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Yeah, i don't think I ever played with the bike because I never went back to the DLCs.
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Yeah, the DLC.
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There's just like one more kind of dungeon that you do and then you do like a little combat gauntlet.
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I think the lore tie-in is that it's like the Sages dungeon or whatever.
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And then they're like oh, you've got the power.
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I know you can have this bike.
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And it's a little like totally weird to have a dirt bike as your reward from these like ancient sages, but like it was fun to like just hop on and zoom around.
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It's kind of like the master sword And then like it.
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I think it had like a certain amount of time it could be out and then it went away.
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Not quite as tonally weird now that we have Tears of the Kingdom.
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No, not yet, Now that they've, like, really established that apparently the ancient sages had like flame thowers and rocket launchers it's like okay, it makes more sense why that was that way.
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And I also did try the like master ascend through all 50 levels and I kept getting stuck on like level 40.
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And that was like a was that a combat thing?
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Yeah, it was.
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Yeah, you spawned in with nothing and you could like pick stuff up on each level And you had to beat every monster and you would go like up and up and up and it would get progressively harder And then I think if you beat it, you would get like a master sword that didn't have to recharge or something like that.
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Nice, i never tried to play like the main game on their like ultra hard mode where they place a Lionel in the starting zone.
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Yeah, the master mode.
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Yeah Yeah.
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So listening to you talk I can kind of see like talking about that combat gauntlet They kind of do.
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They kind of incorporated that into the sequel a little bit with some of the shrines.
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Which leads me into my experience with this game, which was I played it like a year after it came out and had a great time with it, also just kind of did the basic play through, beat it.
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I didn't really like looking any guides, i didn't try to collect everything and collect all the gear, the outfits, whatever.
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I just played it until I began.
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But I'm currently I meant to look at my time, but it's got to be quite a bit of hours into Tears of the Kingdom.
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So I'm going to do my best to try to look at Breath of the Wild isolated from that.
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But it's going to be a little bit challenging because I'm like my most fresh Zelda experience is Tears of the Kingdom.
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Yeah, It's hard to ensure that the memories you're having of Breath of the Wild aren't things you did in Tears of the Kingdom.
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Yeah, because they're very easy to trick yourself into thinking you're remembering one but it's the other.
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Yeah, because it's just like a step.
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It's definitely a sequel.
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It's like they took another step in that world.
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It's the mechanically very different, but vibes and what you're doing pretty similar.
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So, dylan, you played Breath of the Wild most recently.
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Yeah, and also I meant to ask you this, joe, but probably have the least attachment to the series.
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Yeah, before this, the only Zelda game I had ever beaten was Twilight Princess, and I had really only ever played Twilight Princess and the boat.
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Wind Waker.
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Wind Waker And I didn't really care for Wind Waker much And I've very briefly dabbled in like Ocarina of Time but like I wasn't playing them.
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I think Twilight.
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Princess was the only one I actually played kind of when it came out.
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All the rest it was.
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It's been a thing where I kind of like went back to it after the fact, like Wind Waker, i think I tried to play after Twilight Princess, but I was just not vibing with it at all.
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Very different vibe.
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And so for me, i think I got I know I got Zelda when I got my Switch, which I think was like 2018, 2019, somewhere in that time frame, and I, you know, started playing it a little bit then and then, just, you know, got distracted by some of the other games that I had on there.
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I think you know, like it was a new console, new bunch of new games.
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I found one that like I stuck with and played and it wasn't Zelda.
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And then I've tried to like kind of go back to it a couple of times over the years And I've just kind of like bounced off, whether it's some other game has come out or something else that I've been playing around the same time has just grabbed me more than Zelda has or just like hitting points where I'm frustrated at Breath of the Wild And so I'm just like I'm going to go play something else instead.
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But in the lead up to Tears of the Kingdom, i was watching you know some of the trailers or you know people talking about it preview events and kind of like getting into the hype a little bit for Tears of the Kingdom, and I was like I can't, i can't get Tears of the Kingdom, having never beaten Breath of the Wild, because it is like Tears of the Kingdom is an iterative sequel, so like if I can't force myself to get through Breath of the Wild, then like paying $70 for more of the same is not a good good thing, like not a good sound, like in person.
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I could just put that $70 towards something else.
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But then also, you know it, to an extent it feels a little bit like gaming homework.
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This is a game that pretty much everybody universally is like, yeah, you should play it, like you should try it, you should, like it's really good.
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And so I was like, you know, i just need to go ahead.
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I'm in between things right now, i just need to go ahead and play it.
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So I picked it up finally, played through it.
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It was fine.
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I mean some of its hindsight you know it's been what?
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six years or so since the game has come out, so there have been things that have progressed.
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I also am playing it in like a post Elden Ring World for me, which I much preferred over Breath of the Wild personally.
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But yeah, i mean like it's.
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I didn't really do any of the DLC, i didn't do a completionist run of the game.
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I kind of like hit a point where I had done sort of the four big objectives and gotten the sword, and so it was just kind of like, well, let me just like mess around in like the Hyrule Castle area, and I just kind of went through to the end of the game at that point.
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So didn't you do the same thing, Joe, Where you just like ended up there I feel like I remember you talking about this where you were like I just ended up in the castle and just kept going And before I knew it I had beat Ganon.
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So I guess, Yeah, i started poking around the castle to like figure out that You know.
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It's like okay, i'm not going to be able to just walk in and fight Ganon, like that.
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You could see the castle was big and like let's figure out the past again And it is like how long it'll take to get to him.
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And then, as I was going through, i just walked into a room and like there was Ganon and like Think I one shot that fight.
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Yeah, cuz you have the divine beasts, it's pretty yeah.
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I.
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I was getting close to the end of the game, anyways, and then once I had beat Ganon, it was like well, i guess I don't actually want to go and do all that side stuff.
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No, yeah that's it.
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I rolled credits.
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I have that issue with games too.
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I mean, we were talking about this last night where once I roll credits and they dump me back in the world, i'm kind of like, well, what's my motivation?
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Yeah, like I did the thing.
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So, yeah, this Zelda game they they took they took the vibes and they took The charm and everything from the past games, but then they just completely shook up the gameplay.
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So this was the first one that was open world The.
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The way that you just can, as soon as you leave the tutorial area, the great plateau, you can theoretically just go fight Ganon if you want to, and all you're doing is Is getting stronger before you do that.
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That was all very non-traditional.
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The way that you could approach any of the divine beasts and any of the kind of side characters and side regions in any order, that was all very New and fresh for the series and kind of for gaming at the time.
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This there wasn't much else Like this in the open world video game genre.
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I don't know if any other game was doing anything like this at that time.
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So I think that's probably a good place to start is just kind of where they, how.
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They just changed everything, while retaining the the Zelda vibes.
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What did you guys think of that?
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It was.
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It was definitely what the series needed, because Zelda was really kind of like Tanking in quality.
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You watch your mouth.
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In the like like Wind Waker was a good peak for um.
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Twilight Princess was Decent, like it was a pretty good Zelda game, but it also I think there was very like Like I think the darker tone didn't vibe with a lot of people.
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Yeah and then what was the one skyward sword like a pair and Lee was just really not Great, but we did not help that.
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Yeah, i never got a chance to play it, but from all reports it really kind of doubled down on what Twilight Princess did, which is present this very linear Run from Dungeons, dungeon and then begin, and then you're done.
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Game well skyward sword was.
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It suffered from a lot of repetition.
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You went back to the same kind of three areas But they would change as you progress through the game and it was too long, too bloated and then it suffered from motion controls.
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The actual core world and Zelda story of it was back really good And it has some of the best music in the series in my opinion.
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But yeah, the we just Technically and then the motion controls and everything.
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But it had a lot of the Prec.
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Like you could see some of the Breath of the Wild ideas in there, because you could jump out of the sky, fly and like land anywhere in the world that you wanted to, and then you had a stamina meter That would allow you to do different things, but you couldn't upgrade it or do anything with it.
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So there were some ideas there that they took and then completely fleshed out and made like core elements of Breath of the Wild.
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Yeah, i was Not.
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I'm thinking about it.
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It's the the formula that they've been using for their handheld titles, but that wasn't really translating super well into the console, like three, you know, 3d full featured title market.
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And granted, i've played Twilight Princess several times now, but Going back to my most recent playthrough, i was definitely points where I was just kind of bored.
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Especially it was like anything that wasn't dungeon content tended to feel like filler.
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Mm-hmm.
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It wasn't.
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It wasn't terribly good content, like running from place to place And so for I think Breath of the Wild almost said here's the kingdom.
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For Breath of the Wild to completely like turn on its head, i think was kind of What the series needed, because I really returned you to the, the sense of like actually Exploring a world.
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And I think back to like that the first Zelda I played, which was Oracle of Ages, it was a Gameboy Color exclusive.
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It was like okay, here you wake up, your link, here's Something bad happens.
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Okay, now go do eight dungeons to collect the eight random spheres and then You can, you know, go and fight the the big boss.
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But what made it cool as a kid and what was interesting was you could just kind of wander around the map and you could find NPCs and talk to them and like See what's up.
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And then you know you would find parts of the map you couldn't quite get to yet.
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I mean you get nine in a dungeon and you're like, oh, now I can go there, now I can go and explore this thing and that's cool.
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And so it Established that formula that feels comfy.
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And then Twilight Princess and, i'm assuming, skyward, sort of something similar Where it's like, okay, here's the eight dungeon model, excepts, we're really gonna cut back on the overworld Exploration, like Twilight Princess has an overworld But you're really not supposed to do much in it except go to the next dungeon.
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There's not really an encouragement to go and wander around the map And that act.
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In Twilight Princess They even will just remove parts of the map until you get to the story beat that unlocks that part of the map Which made the game feel very like linear and constrained, even though it's sort of the same formula.
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And then breath of the wild kind of Reopen that back up.
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And they did.
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They dropped the like eight dungeon model and we can Discuss if that was a good or a bad idea there, because I think the weakest part of breath of the wild was the lack of a proper Zelda dungeons.
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But it had that like hey, here's an open world and you can go Anywhere and kind of like do anything Which feels the truest to the game's spirit, which is just, and which is just that you're just a, an adventurer, like Exploring yeah, yeah.
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Well, i think the I've not played a lot of the earlier games But like my understanding of them was it's kind of a lot about Exploration, but obviously limited by the hardware that it was on at the time.
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You know like you couldn't necessarily easily do a massive like open world exploration thing on the n64 or the Like NES, snes, that sort of thing, and so when they start hitting like Gamecube era and stuff and it's Not really letting you explore that much, i do think the return to form Almost of breath of the wild, is like no, we are kind of making this way more about the exploration piece again.
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Yeah, and the original games were all about you couldn't, you couldn't do certain things or go to certain places till you had a certain item, whereas with breath of the wild they kind of just kit you out in the beginning and, yeah, you use that through the whole game to just solve a variety of different kind of puzzles, either in the dungeons or in the world, or the shrines, whatever the mini even, like finding the Koroks and stuff Everything is kind of a little bit of a puzzle.
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But when you look back and especially, i think, for you, dylan, you went back to this game after, like you said, playing Elden Ring, yeah, but also after playing like Assassin's Creed Origins, which, yeah, assassin's Creed Origins came out and said, hey, you can go to that mountain that you can see in the distance, and that was all well, up here mid.
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That was all inspired.
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By breath of the wild.
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Yeah, yeah, like I have played a lot of games that were Inspired by breath of the wild, and so it's always kind of you know, it's, i think, kind of a crapshoot in those situations when you go back and you play a game that's been inspired, like that inspired other games, it's kind of like you're you're going back and playing almost the prototype of a lot of those ideas that have since been iterated on and Sort of evolved or or we're just put into like environments and worlds, that in game systems that you prefer.
00:21:05.538 --> 00:21:17.146
Like, yeah, if the whimsy and silliness and whatever of Zelda isn't your necessary vibe at this point, you have like, yeah, your Assassin's Creed version, your yeah, from software version.
00:21:17.387 --> 00:21:18.329
Yeah and like it.
00:21:18.329 --> 00:21:44.500
There's definitely, you know, some games that just pull things from Breath of the Wild just because it was popular and some exec told them like you need to put this in your game because people like this and they Didn't really like take the lessons of breath of the wild and do it yeah and then there have been other games since then that you know have Understood the assignment basically and are like, hey, people liked breath of the wild because of these things.
00:21:44.599 --> 00:21:46.726
How can we capture that same feeling, you know?
00:21:46.726 --> 00:21:48.089
and it's not.
00:21:48.089 --> 00:21:55.448
I definitely think breath of the wild holds up, you know, like it's Going back and playing it, even if it's like a what?
00:21:55.448 --> 00:21:58.193
six, seven year old game at this point was not.
00:21:58.193 --> 00:22:07.559
It didn't feel like I was playing something from ancient history or that like didn't hold up, that didn't scale, you know, like it number one.
00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:13.012
I was impressed that some of the stuff that they were doing was stuff they could do on a switch.
00:22:13.881 --> 00:22:14.603
Six years ago.
00:22:14.643 --> 00:22:27.665
You know like we tell you get to the sequel, yeah, but also just like the, a lot of those ideas are things that, like, you still see in games today, you know, and so it.
00:22:27.665 --> 00:22:29.090
I don't think it was.
00:22:29.090 --> 00:22:37.220
It's not, i guess, a case where it's like Oh, i can understand how this inspired a lot of games, but I much prefer those games.
00:22:37.220 --> 00:22:41.291
It is, i think, much more down to like the personal preference versus like.
00:22:41.291 --> 00:22:46.057
Old game is old and the new stuff just does it better because it's newer.
00:22:46.057 --> 00:22:52.220
You know, it's still one that I well, i don't know that I'd say, pick this one up anymore when you're getting a switch.
00:22:52.220 --> 00:22:54.727
You may just pick up tears of the kingdom, i don't know.
00:22:54.727 --> 00:23:09.265
You guys can maybe say more about that later, but I mean, neither is ever gonna go on sale, so they're gonna be like 60 and 70 dollars for the rest of time you might get like five dollars off every now and then, maybe, yeah, maybe all ten.
00:23:10.361 --> 00:23:17.273
Whoa so we talked about like the nonlinear structure that kind of feeds into the storytelling as well.
00:23:17.273 --> 00:23:25.022
What did you guys think of the the Zelda story and the Way it's presented?
00:23:25.644 --> 00:23:27.748
so you guys have clearly played more.
00:23:28.128 --> 00:23:38.898
Zelda than I have was it not just like Basically the the same core story of almost every Zelda game, with obviously like slightly, very slight variations?
00:23:38.898 --> 00:23:52.872
like in Twilight Princess you're a wolf and then you know, wind Waker, you have a boat that talks and the world is fly, but like, at its core It was basically like to me, ganon's back, you got to go help Zelda.
00:23:52.872 --> 00:23:59.873
To do that, you got to go make friends with like these four different like groups, like other races in Hyrule.
00:23:59.873 --> 00:24:02.207
You know, in older games you did their dungeons.
00:24:02.207 --> 00:24:09.579
Now you're doing like the divine, the divine beasts part of it, but like and then once you do that, you go fight Ganon and then you're done.
00:24:09.800 --> 00:24:19.961
I mean like I know that technically they Shook up the formula because you can ignore all of the divine beasts part and just go fight Ganon and be done in like 30 minutes Or whatever.
00:24:19.961 --> 00:24:22.329
But I don't know like the story.
00:24:22.329 --> 00:24:25.268
Personally, for me the story was a very big like.
00:24:25.268 --> 00:24:30.909
I don't think it was bad, but it didn't strike me as like, oh, this is so different, it's sound.
00:24:30.909 --> 00:24:35.567
It kind of just was like this is the same story But you've like put a different coat of paint on it.
00:24:36.089 --> 00:24:45.767
Yeah, i think it was more interesting in how it was remixed, yeah, and presented in the fact that you Finally have some voice acting in this game.
00:24:45.767 --> 00:24:54.288
And then a lot of Zelda games deal with time and either time travel or time in manipulation or whatever.
00:24:54.288 --> 00:25:12.998
This one dealt with time and the fact that link had just been Sleeping for a hundred years, yeah, and so you were dealing with him seeing how the world had changed because he failed, and then Going back and seeing what happened to the people that you left behind and then kind of helping them find closure.
00:25:12.998 --> 00:25:19.272
Ultimately, yeah, the grand story It's still yeah save princess, defeat Ganon.
00:25:19.961 --> 00:25:24.278
But it was just remixed like everything else, like in traditional Zelda.
00:25:24.278 --> 00:25:39.721
A lot of times It's there's this evil, and you don't know that you're a swordsman or a hero, and then it kind of gets bestowed upon you And then it turns out oh, the evil is Ganondorf, who saw that coming, and then Ganondorf snatches your friend, who happens to be the Princess.
00:25:39.721 --> 00:25:49.967
This game I feel like just kind of laid it all out Immediately is like hey, yeah, it's Ganon, you're the hero, zelda is the princess, she's using her power to contain him.
00:25:49.967 --> 00:26:13.030
Like it was like everything that normally happens in a Zelda game had already happened and Then you failed and then in a last ditch, as effort, zelda locked you away And now you're coming back after all that had happened, i guess yeah and and like don't get me wrong, I mean it was an interesting like just the environmental storytelling and just like post-apocalyptic fantasy stuff was kind of cool.
00:26:13.311 --> 00:26:16.743
But yeah, I guess I was looking at it and I was like I mean, this is not.
00:26:18.181 --> 00:26:18.701
Something else.
00:26:19.021 --> 00:26:42.373
I well, some of the people that I've heard talk about this just on, like other podcasts and stuff, are talking about how Emotionally charged the story is and how it moved them to tears and blah, blah, blah and I'm just like this is It's just a guy saving a princess and fighting off evil, like I mean, i'm not saying that that can't do that for you, but and to be fair, i didn't collect all of the memories because that was tedious.
00:26:43.422 --> 00:26:44.285
Yeah, just look that up.
00:26:45.401 --> 00:26:53.207
Yeah, they do a lot better job with that in the in the sequel and like I mean like there was definitely like moments of like, oh man, like that little fish lady.
00:26:53.207 --> 00:26:57.720
That's the stuff that I love Zelda, or whatever, or loves Link Yeah, that's the stuff.
00:26:57.819 --> 00:27:05.188
I think that's more like emotional is the fact that you did fail and now everybody that you knew is dead, or Or really?
00:27:05.328 --> 00:27:06.859
old because it's been a hundred years.
00:27:07.361 --> 00:27:24.971
I think that when I say I describe the story as melancholy and I think that's why it's just because of the like big time jump where link is like out of place with the people that he knew and so you're going back and Everything that happened is pretty sad because you failed in Ganon one, essentially.
00:27:24.971 --> 00:27:33.133
But I don't think that the core like link, ganon, yeah, zelda story is much different or very like emotionally charged or sad.
00:27:33.133 --> 00:27:40.412
Link and Zelda's Relationship is a little bit different in this but it's different and like all then they put a little spin on it.
00:27:40.412 --> 00:27:47.200
But I think it's more about the like, the setting, the time and the like, the apocalyptic nature of it that makes it more melancholy.
